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on Nov 20 2012 13 comments9 DISCUSSING
Awesome post, and echoed by Rand: http://moz.com/rand/time-recovery-hacks/ Running this site, I've never had a single call with either of them. Odd perhaps, but both are insanely good with email. Rand's also in London now and again. Frustrating? Yes, but rarely. And often the email is good enough.
However, I can think of two situations where calls really excel:
1. Working with Ben & Jon working on the site's development the *only* thing that really works well for us is calls. We Skype once or twice a week when a project's coming up and we can talk through a spec I've prepared in Basecamp and talk through problems and solutions there and then.
2. Sales calls. By sales, I mean relationship building stuff (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/building-awesome-relationships-for-links-likes-and-love) where you're sounding out a prospect and talking through a potential project. This is where you want to build trust, bounce ideas of each other and get excited. The close can be done via email, but when you can't be there face-to-face over a drink or something, a call is awesome.
I guess though when you've got a schedule like "Randmesh" you've already excited people and built those relationships, you've hired people to handle the relationship building and exciting and if it's that important you'll probably do it in person.
Ed: I think you nailed it. We've built great teams at Moz and HubSpot and if something is important enough to really, really need a "real" conversation, I like to do it in person (preferably over a meal). And if that's not possible, I'll do a call.
Insider fun fact: Of the limited number of calls I'll do in a year, about one a year is with Rand. (I've had, I think, 6 calls with Rand in the entire time that I've known him). We've had more than that many meals together.
"sales calls" as you define them Ed are the backbone of relationships and in business you need that just like human contact trumps a regular Skype or Hangout as much as the commute maybe felt a waste. I can understand some of the productivity arguments but a blanket no calls policy is insensitive to default human communications and can render a relationship devoid of chemistry.
Agreed. In fact Ron Garrett's post on how Distilled New York builds relationships (as of last week, Distilled "sales team" is dead. Long live "client development team") is exactly on that: http://inbound.org/articles/view/setting-up-your-seo-project-agency-for-success
Ron's own serendipitous outreach is just another example of human contact, or "chemistry" - love that :)
I'd personally love to get to that point, as I find phone meetings can run 10x the amount of time really needed. However, as Ed points out, there are situations, like relationship building and technical stuff where it makes sense.
One thing I NEVER do though, is I never answer a ringing phone. Unless it's my wife.
The arm ache is not worth it!
I doubt Matt is accustom to people using his comics AND crediting him. Kudos for both.
I'm curious to know if Dharmesh built his business and his brand without ever using the phone? Like back in the early days of Hubspot, when he was (most likely) hustling his ass off to do the 10 million things an entrepreneur has to do to keep a fledgling startup alive, did he really never use the phone?
If Dharmesh did build Hubspot into what it is today by only taking 15 calls a year, I'd love to see a specific post on exactly how he accomplished this.
Not by a long shot. My first startup was an enterprise software company. I spent a fair amount of time on conference calls with customers. But, I still didn't take incoming calls. Everything was a scheduled call.
HubSpot has been a very different experience than my first startup. HubSpot has had an exceptional sales team very early in the process -- and we grew primarily through selling to the SMB market. We also have a great team for customer service and support. So, this time around, I've been able to mostly avoid calls -- by design. Once again, when I do have calls, they're always scheduled. I don't answer the phone. I actually don't have an office phone at all. The number I do have goes straight to voice mail. It doesn't ring anywhere.
I'm not saying this is the right thing for everyone (not by a long shot) -- but somehow, I've managed to do OK despite not using the phone as most normal business people.
Thank you, Dharmesh for the reply. This makes more sense now. Appreciate it.
Makes perfect sense. I can't imagine ever wanting to take an incoming call out of the blue...
That's why telephone answering services exist (and do well...) ;-)
I agree with the practical reasons for this, but the reasoning that Dharmesh uses (I'm too polite, etc) do seem like things that are naturally improved with effort. Play to your strengths though, I suppose?