You must login or register!
Inbound.org uses Twitter to register and create accounts. Your Twitter handle will also be your username here on Inbound and registration/login will enable you to submit content, post comments and create/edit your Inbound profile. Use the button below to verify your Twitter account.
Login or Register
Do you need to go to college to learn how to code? No. Do you need to go to college to learn logic and how to solve interesting problems? Definitely. My argument is you should go to college to get a real understanding of computing, computer science, logic and maths, if you're dream is to become a top notch software engineer and build crazy-cool stuff. But there's programming, and there's programming. The kind of code I'm likely to be interested in is the shallow Rails + twitter bootstrap "make a demo to get off the ground" type. I'm not going to cut it for the Google Engineering team with that... (and I don't want to). Anyone can learn how to become a "chef" at PizzaHut, but without the deep understanding and training, you'll never be that michelin star hero people aspire to. Joel Spolsky makes the case that in a world where the best software products win, you need to go all out in acquiring the best technical talent. Hiring, and on your own. I highly recommend you read The Dip, a short book by Seth Godin on when to quit and when to stick.: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dip-Little-Teaches-Stick/dp/1591841666 If it doesn't help you, I'll PayPal you a refund. I guess the real question is... what do you want to do? Do you want to write code for a living, or something else?
Thanks for your thoughts Ed! Starting to think that too. I guess I've been too focused on learning code, and not trying to further myself from a problem solving aspect. But to answer your last question, my dream is a tech startup, but I want to be the one creating the app. I'm an entrepreneur at heart and my goal is to never take a job. Who knows, that could change a year from now, but that's what I'm set on. Thanks again Ed for leaving your thoughts.
So this is interesting. Sure, you may be the guy creating the app, but you'll likely want to hire too? Entrepreneur, build something bigger than yourself. You want to have the network and lingo to attract top talent - staying in Uni is a genuine competitive advantage - as well as the idea and interesting enough problems to retain people. Joel Spolsky's essays on hiring are worth a read. Grab the whole lot in one go with his short book "Smart and Gets Things Done": http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Gets-Things-Done-Technical/dp/1590598385 Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing what you build :)
I have spent the vast majority of my life in school (getting a Ph.D. will do that :-/), and I'll be the very first to advise you to drop out if you already know what you want to do. I had no idea what I wanted to do (I still don't) so I kept progressing in school because I kept finding interesting problems to solve. The entire time I was in school (from undergrad all the way through finishing my dissertation), I spent a lot of time working on side projects. Some of them evolved into businesses. Some of them didn't. But I was never passionate enough about any of them to fully commit... so I kept progressing down the Ph.D. road. Ultimately, everything boils down to passion. If you know what you're truly passionate about, it's game over. You've already won, and you don't need college or our goofy life advice to help you get where you want to be. You just need to figure out how to channel that passion into a career (and that's significantly easier than identifying what you're passionate about). Now, if you don't know what you're passionate about... then welcome to my hell ;-) Unfortunately, if you fall into this category, I can't help you. I'm still looking for my own answers :-) As for the coding and college question... you don't need college to learn how to code. In fact, if you want to find some of the worst coders in the industry, you'll find them at college ;-) I'm a good coder, but I've been fortunate enough to meet and work with AMAZING coders (i.e., people that are genuinely passionate about it -- the people you'll find at top-notch technology companies like Google). Those people didn't acquire their skills in college. They became skilled coders by coding... and then coding... and then coding some more. I could keep going, but this is already a borderline novel. If you want to hear more rambling, just hit me up on Twitter (@webbstuff).
"If you know what you're truly passionate about, it's game over." Is it? Universities are the perfect "incubator" for ideas. Except for the pressures of a degree (it's CS. It will help), it's the ideal springboard into a wealth of brains and opportunities to call upon later. Sow seeds, and carry on. :)
You know that scene in Good Will Hunting where Robin Williams talks about the Sistine Chapel to Matt Damon? That's exactly how I feel right now :-) Anyway, I'll try to keep this short. I would argue that undergrad is a horrendous "incubator" for ideas. As John mentions in another comment, undergrad is more about learning how to learn and growing as a person. But if you have an idea that you know you want to work on, undergrad's distractions (e.g., classes, your social life, etc.) will serve as a huge road block. Grad school is a better environment for ideas, but Jon's post is questioning the value of an undergrad education so I'll leave post-grad out of this discussion. My original point was that if you know what you want to do (i.e., you've found your passion), your time should be spent doing it... and finding people that share your passion. With that in mind, I fundamentally reject the idea that undergrad is the "ideal springboard into a wealth of brains and opportunities." A wealth of kids with similar SAT scores and high school grades? Absolutely. But a wealth of people that will help you accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. Not so much. To be extremely clear: I'm not arguing that a college education is worthless. I'm arguing that there are significantly more efficient ways to spend your time if you already know what you want to do with your life. I spent almost a decade in a university environment (both as a professor and as a student), and it definitely made me a better person. But if I had discovered my passion during that time, I would have left immediately.
Love your bit on passion Steve. Really appreciate you leaving your 2 cents, read it all and it's definitely clarifying some things for me!
I'm sure there are going to be many interesting comments from both sides of the experience scale. A good number of the top people in SEO dropped out of college. I didn't, so I'll present my argument from my side. I went to a 4 year university in Virginia. I also dropped out for a semester to go to Europe to sort out some personal issues in my life. I came back and finished up college, when a lot of my friends that I lived with in Europe decided to drop out, because I thought that for me I wanted to have a bachelors, because I couldn't guarantee that doing my own thing would always work out. And it didn't. I ran a company in Switzerland for a year, and it didn't work out. Sure, I started later than you, and I didn't have the experience I needed at the time, but having a degree enabled me to get my first job which got me my second job when I came back from Europe which got me my current job at Distilled. College, for me, wasn't about what I majored in necessarily, though what I majored in has factored greatly into my career in SEO (technical writing and web development). It was about learning how to learn and pushing through adversity. I worked many late nights in college working on long papers for a class that was challenging to me. That taught me to stick through the tough issues I may face at work from time to time, and to realize that it can be ok to work long hours as well to get done what you need to get done. That has served me way better than my "course of study." College isn't for everyone, but I'm going to be very American here and say that it's for most. I know of tech startups here in NYC who require a bachelors degree to get a job with them, even if you have experience. Now, you can definitely find ones that don't, but I'm seeing more and more that do. Ultimately, of course, it's your decision. I'm always happy to bat around ideas and thoughts, and I look forward to meeting you in person next week.
Read it all, but don't really have much a response, other than thank you SO much John for writing this. Really glad I wrote this post because of all the POVs I'm getting!
As I mentioned on Twitter the most "value" I receive from my bachelors of science degree (Management Information Systems) is that I have the ability to land a interview at larger corporations. While some of the very SEO focused companies (moz, distilled, SEER) might be smart enough to overlook a degree for the right skill set some of the "big" corporations such as Best Buy, Target, Thomson Reuters who offer SEO positions typically won't let you in the door for an interview without a degree. Just my two cents from my early career (less than 5 years).